The REAL Truth Behind Podcast Booking Agencies

There is a lot of fake news being spread around the web these days, and it is a real shame that is happening. The article entitled, “A Deep-Dive Investigation of Podcast Booking Agencies” tells a sad story of a disgruntled customer who sends out his investigative undercover team to find out the “truth” behind Podcast Booking Agencies.

He then uses the web platform to spread his untrue message about Interview Booking Agencies, such as “there are four agencies that are actually run by three different partners” What?? That is crazy. Firstly, a few years ago when podcasting wasn’t as big as it is now, there were around 4 SEPARATE companies run by 4 DIFFERENT people…yes, a few of them know each other personally, as the podcasting community was much smaller back then.

How Can You Trust What I SAY?

I am a freelance graphic designer who has worked with some of these great people and/or their clients over the years. I stumbled upon this negative, totally biased one sided story and felt compelled to defend their names and reputation. True, in any service-based business there are bound to be some problems, but we work through them, tackle them, learn and grow.

I am not going to discuss every untruth I uncovered in this article, but here are some of the basics. You can use your own discernment to reason on the other “facts” in his undercover investigation article.

The 4 Companies That Started It ALL

The 4 companies all started around the same time with Jessica Rhodes being one of the first, starting her company Interview Connections. Her dad was big into radio in the day and she followed in his footsteps, branching out into podcasting and starting her own company. Go Girl Go!

Natalie Davey got her start with Interview Connections as a booker, but after a while she started her own agency, The Expert Bookers, and with Jessica’s blessing, headed out on her own. She now runs a hugely successful team of dedicated podcast bookers who are true professionals and genuinely nice people to work with.

Phil Singleton and John Jantsch are the owners of Podcast Bookers. They run a thriving SEO company, are often guests themselves on podcasts, and are authors of SEO for Growth.

Interview Valet is run by Tom Schwab. He is a marketer and author of Podcast Guest Profits: Grow Your Business with a Targeted Interview Strategy.

So these were the 4 companies in the beginning, all starting before the podcast boom. Since then several startup companies have emerged that offer similar services.

“Getting On Podcasts That Are Actually Listened To”

He states in the article that “I had to figure out how to get on ‘some podcasts that were actually listened to’. He provides a link at this point in his article to some Top Podcasts such as, “The Todd Durkin Impact Show”, “The School of Greatness with Lewis Howes”, “The Mindvalley Podcast”, “The GaryVee Audio Experience” and “The Tim Ferriss Show”. All awesome shows!

He then complains, to quote, “You think this would be a breeze given there are (buy some estimates) over 900,000 podcasts on the planet”. (Actually, according to the latest research, on the site podcastinsitghts.com …currently over 1,500,000 shows with over 34 million episodes as of October 2020).

So, a big looming question remains. Has Thomas G. Martin been a guest on any of the above-mentioned shows? After researching his name as a guest on all the shows, even trying typing in his name a bit different, after all he may be going as an “alias”, nothing. As of writing this article, he has not been a guest on any of the above-mentioned podcasts. Maybe it is a “wish list”?? One thing he must realize now, it must not be “a breeze” to appear on these shows.

A lot of hard work and research goes on behind the scenes when looking to book a guest on a podcast. I wanted to interview one of the CEO’s of a Podcast Booking Agency. Natalie Davey of The Expert Bookers answers my following questions:

What is the process and time involved in booking an expert guest on a podcast?

It’s certainly not a quick process. There are many stages and there is a lot of leg work involved in getting each interview booked. Shows specific to you (or a client) have to be found, researched, contact info gathered, and a good email including an impelling pitch has to be created. Then it’s not a matter of sitting back and just waiting, most hosts require numerous follow-ups before they’ll send a response (remember for most hosts their show is a side-gig and not their day job so responses can be slow). Then there is the correspondence to organize and schedule the interview date. It’s not complicated work but it is time consuming.

Are the podcasts that you book your clients on “Top Rated”?

Yes and no! We have been in the business of booking podcast interviews since 2014 and the very foundation to our success is based on our ability to book our clients on shows that are worth their time, effort, and investment. However, every client has a different reason for wanting to do podcast interviews. For some it’s to establish themselves as thought-leaders, others to promote their service and acquire more customers, some purely want the SEO benefits from the valuable organic backlinks, or often a person has a book launch coming up and they want to get the word out. Obviously “top” shows are desirable and we always approach them on our client’s behalf, but it’s more important to us to find well-established shows that are best suited to each of our client’s specific expertise, targeting their ideal audience type, and that will best help them accomplish their marketing goals. It’s not always about the “big” or “top” shows. It’s more often about finding the right shows; well-established, good-quality podcasts that are well suited to the individual.

You cannot hire the services of a booking agency and say “I want to be on top shows”, and then expect them to deliver. It doesn’t quite work like that. The best agencies out there don’t have the Joe Rogan’s on speed-dial. You need to ask yourself “Am I a top-guest?”

Are you a New York Times Bestseller Author, and do you have a 5–6 figure social media following? If you are, then great, your chances for getting on the big shows are high. If you haven’t yet accomplished those things, that’s okay, you’re probably an amazing expert at what you do and more than worthy of being featured on great shows. The point is that you have to have realistic expectations when it comes to the “top” shows.

Something to keep in mind also, often show hosts of the larger podcasts charge a high fee for guest features. If someone has the single purpose of only wanting to be on “top” shows, my advice would be not to use a podcast booking service. You can go to the host’s website, fill in a form giving your best pitch and if they deem you a worthy candidate, pay the fee.

Do you know the audience size of each podcast? Do you book clients on shows that no one listens to as Thomas G Martin claims in his article?

I would be surprised if there were any booking agencies out there that were booking shows that no one listened to…they certainly wouldn’t be in business for long.

We only book well-established podcasts. If a show has been around for a good length of time, and have a good number of quality episodes aired, it stands to reason that they have a good size listenership. A lot of work goes into producing a good podcast so a host wouldn’t keep putting their time and money into it if they didn’t have listeners.

At The Expert Bookers we tend to work by, and base our guarantees, on how many episodes a show has, the general quality of the content and caliber of guests they feature and ensure that the host is providing valuable backlinks to our client’s website.

We work in this way for a number of reasons.

Regarding audience size, show statistics and demographics are a little tricky in the podcast world. Things have recently started to change with some promising software tools on the horizon, but up until now a podcast’s download figures and audience size are not publicly available. Only the host has access to reliable statistics for their show. Sure we can ask hosts for this info, and we do when it’s appropriate (it can be a sensitive area, kind of like asking a woman her dress size, some will happily share, others will not and take slight offense). Also keep in mind that figures and stats are constantly changing.

When it comes to rating numbers on platforms like iTunes, it’s not a true indication of a show’s listenership. For example, we know many shows that only have 2-figure ratings, but are actually getting 5-figure downloads per episode. The fact is that the majority of listeners simply do not take the time to rate the shows they listen to.

In our experience a shows size is not necessarily its most valuable asset to our clients. Getting them in front of their ideal target audience is actually the most important factor for ROI — think quality over quantity.

Thomas G Martin claims to quote “The real damage done was the loss of two months’ time waiting on an agency that produced nothing”. How would you respond to that criticism?

No podcast interview is wasted time in my opinion as there are so many benefits to podcast guesting. Sure, you don’t want to be paying a booking agency to get you on new shows, as you can probably secure those pretty easily yourself, but they would still be valuable to you. It would be an opportunity to polish your speaking skills, and no new show stays new for long. You’ll be listed as one of their guests, for their audiences to listen to for potentially years to come.

In addition to the actual listener audience, there are huge benefits to podcast guesting, including:

· Establishes you and your company as thought-leaders, boosts your reputation, and bolsters your online presence.

· Drives more traffic to your site.

· Each episode is ever-green marketing content that is forever searchable online.

· Each episode is great content that can be repurposed for your website/social media.

· Hosts post your episodes to their websites with show notes giving organic back-links to your site, increasing your SEO

· As you deliver valuable advice and experience you inform and give back, helping build a global community.

What are the benefits of hiring a podcast booking agency?

As mentioned there’s a huge amount of work that goes into booking podcast interviews, so the biggest benefit is saving time. If you use an experienced all-done for you service, they will take care of everything for you. Just tell them the types of shows that you want to feature on and leave them to make it happen, getting your interviews on your calendar. An agency will also have good connections and will be able to open more doors for you with podcast hosts. Also, having an agency represent you looks more professional and again increases your chances of getting on good quality shows.

Can I get booked on podcasts without hiring an agency?

Sure you can. If you are willing to put in the time, prepare your pitch, be diligent on follow-ups and do the scheduling yourself, this may be the option you choose. Just remember, those follow-ups are key, you may have to reach out to a show several times before you get a response.

Thank you, Natalie, for taking the time to answer these questions today. Is there an email readers can use contact you for any further clarifications or questions?

You can visit our website at www.expertbookers.com or feel free to email me directly at natalie@expertbookers.com

Are One-Sheets A“Gimmick”?

Thomas claims in his article that the mandatory “one-sheet” is a gimmick to generate income. Let me clear up this claim for our readers! First of all, yes, the agencies do require a one-sheet to provide hosts with information about their clients. This is a normal practice. All you public speakers, book authors, CEO’s, etc. have a media kit, right?

If you choose to provide one yourself, or if you decide to hire your own graphic designer that is always the client’s prerogative. Granted, some provide one-sheets that do not fit the criteria, or look too amateurish to be taken seriously. I have created 100’s of these sheets for clients over the years. The one-sheets and/or media kits I create are Interactive PDF’s that harmonize with the client’s brand standards and/or website, with active links directing readers to the client’s website, social media, and other items like a featured book or e-course. A one-sheet is a necessary item, far from a gimmick. For podcast guesting purposes, one-sheets are tailor designed to give perspective hosts a quick run through of what to expect from the guest requesting to be on the show.

Final Thoughts

Fake news and misinformation are the norm these days. Articles like the one I came across, saturated with negative energy, stem from authors who love to generate doubt. Sadly, they feel the need to circulate hypercritical and a times downright lies to make themselves look like the authority on a subject.

I have found over the years that values do matter. No, the nice guy or gal doesn’t always win, but at least they can get a good night’s sleep. They don’t resort to criticism in an attempt to get ahead of the game. What is more important to them is retaining good relationships and reputations that they have worked so very hard to build.

When we see articles like “A Deep-Dive Investigation of Podcast Booking Agencies” we should to take affirmative action. Positivity and truth can stop lies and negativity in their tracks. Choose what you read, who you listen to, and when in doubt, do your own “undercover investigation”.